Vigilante Debate

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Vigilante Debate

This single, seemingly innocent video has generated more learned discussion than almost any other video on the website. (Bird Gone still holds the record for correspondence, though...)

Here are the various arguments and counter-arguments about what, exactly, this aircraft really IS:

A note from a viewer:

"Ex-Nasal Radiator, mostly fighter type, thinks that Vigilante launch looks more like an A3J (A-3A after Sep 1962) than the follow-on RA-5C. Pictures not great, but don’t see the humpback of the RA-5C, nor the larger flaps. RA-5C also had the “canoe” recce pack on the belly, but couldn’t see it anyway in these views. A-5A career was short-lived, since the mission went away and the linear bomb bay thing never worked. One squadron -- think it was designated VAH-7, made one big round the world cruise on maybe the Enterprise in the early sixties."

Another note from another viewer, about the Vigilante video:

"Just wanted to contradict the guy that says your Vigilante video is
really an A-3. He's wrong - flat wrong."

"Originally the RA-5C was supposed to be a supersonic penetrating
bomber, with the nukes carried on centerline between the two engines;
fairly quickly it was retooled for the photo-recon mission. The
Vigie's had a bad reputation as being very hard to bring aboard
(because of it's size), especially at night. I once went thru a
4-month ground school with a guy who'd lost his wings after he'd been
unable to do this."

"An A-3 had a totally different planform, with under-wing engines, much
wider body, different canopy, etc. Known as the "Whale", they also had
a bad-rep - the old expression in Naval Aviation was "Buried at sea, in
an A-3D". Originally it also had a mission as a manned, penetrating
bomber for the nuke mission, but later on was used mostly for the
FEWSG mission for training the Fleet to handle EW threats - a friend of
mine was an NFO in those. It was also used as a VIP transport for CNO.
It was a variant of the USAF B-66."

Here's more info on A-3s: http://www.a3skywarrior.com/

http://www.photovault.com/Link/Military/AirForce/Aircraft/B-66Destroyer.html

"I'm also a former Naval Aviator, and work with many, many other former and current Navy/Marine pilots. As a retiree, I still teach the young guys and gals coming through the flight program at NAS Whiting Field, near Pensacola {although only in simulators :( }"

- P.E.O.

And yet another note from another viewer, about this video:

"OK, to put the argument concerning the Vigilante to rest, I'd like to contribute the following:"

"The Vigilante was originally called the A3J before all Navy aircraft designations were changed in 1962. The first letter, "A" stood for Attack. The number following, "3" stood for the third type of attack aircraft built by that company. The letter, "J" was the designation for North American Aviation, the company which built the plane."

"As another example the old AJ, named the Savage, was the first attack aircraft built for the Navy by North American Aviation. The A2J Super Savage was the second."

"After 1962, under the Navy's new scheme of names, the Vigilante was designated the A5. This would correspond with the same way the Air Force named their aircraft. This would indicate it was the fifth attack aircraft type built for the Navy."

"As improvements were made on an aircraft type, the last letter was changed to a B, then C, etc. I'm not sure there were that many improvements made to the Vigi to warrant a B added to the designation. Found not (to be) practical as a nuclear delivery platform, modifications included a reconnaissance and/or photo package added, reflecting in the new designation: RA5."

"As to the A3 Skywarrior, it's first designation was A3D-1, with the "A" being Attack, the "3" being the third attack aircraft built for the Navy by Douglas Aircraft Company which is represented by the "D". After 1962 it was designated the A3. The A3A was first, followed by the modified A3B. Later versions included the RA3B (reconnaissance), the EA3B (electronic countermeasures), and the KA3B (tanker)."

Nick Nickerson, Retired Naval Aviator

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/a-3j.htm

New 2/24/06: Yet Still Another Comment on this Video:

"The Vigilante in the carrier launch video appears to be in Naval flight test markings. Combined with the number of ‘goofers’ on the flight deck, it is possible that it is one of the YA3J-1 prototypes during carrier trials on USS Saratoga in July 1960. By the time the aircraft entered service in 1961, it had been redesignated the A5-A."

Tim Collins, RAF (Retired)

New 3/5/06 More commentary on this video!

Really great site with lots of great videos!

Re: the RA5C clip: It is NOT a RA5C! It is the original Carrier Suitability A5A (BuNo 146697). I flew the 500th flight of this airplane, and it remained at PAX until it was "retired" to the museum at the front gate.

I also have carrier traps in both the A5A & RA5C airplanes, and a whole lot of field arrestments at limit conditions. Also, yes there was a RA5B...I believe only one. It was the prototype of the new wing configuration & BLC, the hump back, "canoe", and had an auto throttle. Bill Peters flew several flights in the plane at Pax River, before it became the RA5C.

One last comment, after flying the A5 & RA5 and getting those hours & traps, as a fighter pilot I was concerned that the detailer might order me to a Vigie squadron . Fortunately, I returned to the F4 community... 'hope this info is of use. Keep up the good work!

Smoke Wilson, RAdm USN (Ret)