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HELICOPTERS

This page was last updated on 04/22/2008

Info from Leland Ogren

"Sorry to inform you that the helicopter in the video is the Chinook's smaller cousin, the H-46 Sea Knight.  The engine bay doors are the confirmation first obvious due to the size.  The H-47 Chinook has exterior engines."

Info from "Red":

"Regarding the new Helicopter Video dated 7-6-07 'Chinook Helicopter Picking Up Navy Seals', the helicopter is, in fact, a CH-47 Chinook helicopter. I was a Flight Engineer for 6 years in the army.

How to tell this is in fact a CH-47 is:

1. The ramp -- a CH-47 has 4 very distinct tie down mt points.

2. The ramp access panels on the forward end are removed to allow water flow. (these panels access the rear door chain that operates the outer part of the door.)

3. The roof panel access is divided into 3 parts to the aft transmission.

4  The area forward of the aft transmission (gray roof panels) you can see the driveshaft housing the #8-#9 driveshaft to the Aft transmission.

5. Looking at the crew chief on the left the box next to his left hand is the step box outside the aircraft to go on top of the fuselage. Anyone that has flown on this aircraft can also tell that the sound is a CH-47. The blade pitch is heavier that a "smaller" CH-46. Hope this is clear info for you we love the web site keep it going.

More Info about this mishap:

"The reason for the Robinson R44 Raven II having such a close rotor-strike, passengers that don't know how dangerous a helicopter can be!!"

"After the pilot & three passengers had been airborne for approximately 40 minutes, they returned for a full stop landing. The video footage was made available to the investigating team and revealed that the aircraft came to a hover approximately 6 feet above the ground. The pilot descended gradually with the right skid touching first. The passenger that was occupying the left front seat right knee touched the cyclic control column on touched down, pushing it forward, which caused the aircraft to pitch/tilt forward violently."

"The pilot took immediate corrective action by pulling back on the cyclic control stick, which caused the aircraft to fallback onto its skids. The pilot applied power flew a circuit, followed by an uneventful landing. Luckily nobody was injured in the incident."

"The full report can be found at the SOUTH AFRICAN CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY web site (Ref 0404)"

Updated Info from "Ogre":

"The Gunships! video you have posted in the helicopter section is footage of the 6th Special Operations Squadron from Hurlburt Field playing with their toys. The 6th is a highly trained and dedicated team of Combat Aerial Advisors (a kind of Green Beret Team for airplanes and helicopters). Most of the footage was gathered during training in Columbia."

Information from Jeff:

"I'm sorry to inform you that the video 'Gunships' is not from the 6th SOS. It is from Dillon Aerospace out of Scottsdale Arizona. Dillon makes the gatling guns for the 160th and uses his Huey and 2 F Model MD Helicopters to test them at his land in Scottsdale. I have flown in that Huey and have the pics to prove it. I even have Dillons video that he sells with that footage on it. Its called 'Machine Gun Magic'. I worked for MD Helicopters as well which is right down the road from Dillon's. Please update your site with this correct info."

Info from Col H.A. Stockwell, regarding this crash:

"Just wanted to provide a little more information on your Helo crash vids 2.0 & 2.5 (Marine CH-46).  At the time of the mishap (Dec '99), the Helo was assigned to the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) Special Operations Capable (SOC)."

"The mission was certification of VBSS (Visit, Board, Search & Seizure) off the San Diego coast prior to our deployment to the Persian Gulf in Jan 2000. The mission was a joint operation with SEALs doing a "Hook & Climb" from their RIBs and the Marine force fast roping from the '46 in a hover position."

"As seen in the video, the 46 never made it to a hover position. We were fortunate to have the SEALs in their boats which allowed for immediate recovery of personnel.  Both pilots and one aircrew member survived along with two members from the assault team.  However, seven members were lost that day:  One Marine aircrewman along with five Marines and one Navy Corpsman from the assault team. At the time I was the Executive Officer of the 15th MEU (SOC)"

- Col H. A. Stockwell USMC (RET)

From Technical Advisor Tony Clay:

"I have been informed by a Canadian Sea King pilot that the Sea King was part of a static display at an airshow in upper NY State, but was asked to move as it was blocking aircraft movements on the ground. While being moved the crew was asked to do a short display as it was airborne.  When the Sea King came to the hover the aircraft entered into a phenomenon called VRS (Vortex Ring State).  In simple terms this condition involves the helicopters own turbulence to cancel out lift. This phenomenon can be confused with Settling with Power as the two are similar, or so I have been informed. You are quite right as the Sea King was not landing at this time as it was still completing its short display."

From Chad Rooney CPT, AV Brigade S2/ S3 Training 110th Aviation Brigade

" I was at that airshow in Schenectady, NY as a young Civil Air Patrol Cadet. We had an information booth and were providing security around the static display aircraft.  As a treat, we got to fly in a US Army UH-60 Blackhawk down the Hudson and around Albany, NY.

"I was sitting on the right side and facing out as the pilot was maneuvering down the centerline of the river in some pretty aggressive turns. At one point, the flight smoothed out and I looked through the front canopy to see the Canadian Sea King in front of us. We were flying a staggered left formation with them at that point. We then pulled up next to them to take pictures of each other. We even flew over top of them to the other side to allow those passengers a photo opportunity."

"We eventually headed back to the airshow where the Sea King came to about a 300 foot hover above ground level while our Blackhawk did some high speed passes with a pitch-back turn (return to target) at the end of each run. We then came in for a landing and of course the pilot did a 'wheelie' dragging the tail wheel for a couple of hundred feet before setting it down and letting us out."

"As we were heading for the snow fence which held back the crowd, we heard everyone gasp for breath and point at the Sea King. It was coming down very fast from its out-of-ground effect hover and as you can see from the video, it hit the ground and spun around while the tail boom separated and blades flew everywhere.  Instinctively, we all hit the ground as blades flew toward us and the crowd and then we had to become crowd control."

"Our senior members were the first on the scene as they raced to the crash site in their golf cart. The crew chiefs for the Blackhawk we just flew in took out the seats and they Medevac'd two of the Sea King crewmembers to the local hospital. An ambulance took the other two crewmembers. I'm not sure which two came back that day, but they were fine and said the other two were in stable condition and were going to be fine."

"I never heard or saw anything about that crash, which occurred sometime in the 1991-1992 timeframe, until I went through flight school here with the Army in 2000-2001. Apparently, it was definitely settling with power, which is where a vortex ring state occurs when you have little to no forward airspeed and more than a 300 foot-per-minute rate of decent. I don't know what maneuvering they did before we linked up with them along the river and I don't know if they were planning on doing any maneuvering after we landed, but it sure made the airshow one I will never forget."

"Thanks for hosting a site like this where us aviators can watch where others have made errors and can learn a thing or two."

Click here and here to read the NTSB reports from this bizarre crash.

More info, from a spotter:

This was not actually a 'rescue mission,' (as) the helicopter was transporting climbers from the south base camp of Mount Everest in Nepal. The helicopter was a Russian-built MI-17, flown by the Nepalese company Simrik Air. Two people died in the accident, which happened on May 28, 2003.

Info from a 2-cycle mechanic:

"I'm a former professional two-cycle engine mechanic, and I can hear this guy's two-cycle engine seized up.  Most like due to improper care or feeding -- fuel:oil mixture.   It looks worse than it might have been, since the main rotor speed didn't seem to decay at all and he used that stored rotor energy to flare with before impact.   I looked at it many times and of notes is that it only flipped over one time after the flare. Since he was wearing a helmet, he may have walked away from it"

Info from Shawn Coyle, Author of "Cyclic and Collective"

"If you look at the end of this film clip, you'll see the reason for the problem. The helicopter enters the 'wingover' from into wind (the wind sock at the end of the clip shows the wind). The pilot climbs, but not high enough to regain the airspeed that was at the start. Rate of descent is high and the only way to stop the rate of descent is to flare hard, which also doesn't work, so the last best thing to do is to get level and run on - which is done. Never do this maneuver from into wind to downwind - seen this happen too many times."

3/31/08  New Info from Ken Pierce:

"This is a military version of the AS332 (Super Puma) http://www.helis.com/70s/h_puma.php   Same as seen in 'Helicopter Crash' and 'Helicopter Crash 7'.  I worked for the US subsidiary of Eurocopter for 13 years."

New Info 2/25/08, from Jay Brzezynski

"The ship involved in the video is not USS LaSalle, but a T-AO 187 Class fleet oiler. This is the same type of ship involved in the infamous videos involving the Marine H46 in 'Helicopter Crash 2 and 2.5'."

Info from a former HC-4 Pilot::

"I thought you might like some clarification about these two videos. The MH53 Pave Low involved in the mishap is from the 21st Special Operations Squadron from Mildenhall, England. They were conducting operations to/from the USS LaSalle when they drifted a wee bit too close to the ships antennas."

"After the mishap, the ship pulled into Augusta Bay, Sicily. The Pave Low's two engines, main gear box and all its rotor blades were removed and it was then externally lifted approximately 50 kilometers by a US Navy MH-53E Sea Dragon helicopter from HC-4."

"Here is a picture of the three-engined Navy 53 lifting the stricken (formally twin-engine) USAF 53. For clarification: I was a pilot at HC-4 from July 2002-2005 and this external lift was accomplished in January of 2002. Please feel free to add this information to your helicopter video page."

New Info 2/25/08, from Jay Brzezynski

"The ship involved in the video is not USS LaSalle, but a T-AO 187 Class fleet oiler. This is the same type of ship involved in the infamous videos involving the Marine H46 in 'Helicopter Crash 2 and 2.5'."

Info from Cpl. Robert Bautzmann,  U.S.M.C:

:"Your clip 'Night Vision Landing' involving the HH-60H is mislabeled.  First, the night vision is an image intensifier, not a thermal sight -- so you can't see the heat of anything with it.  The light you see (in the video) is static electricity from the blades hitting sand and generating a small static spark. (You can see it with your eyes,  it's just not as bright.)"

"I served three tours in Iraq with 3/7 Wpns co. It's pretty cool to see in person."

Info from a viewer:  "The rollover at sea helicopter video is not really what it appears. It appears the video is from a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser (I was on one of these for a while). The guy walking around calmly in front of the bird would be holding on for dear life and literally laying on the deck if the sea’s were that heavy."

"What it seems like the bird's tail wheel is not rotating, so in order to get it lined up to go back in the hanger they are tightening up the RAS cable on the rear of the helo and pulling it over. You can see the cable in the video."

From a former US Navy crewman familiar with helo ops::

"If you look at the stern hangers of any of the ships that carry these helicopters in the US fleet, they are divided (so) the rast equipment can taxi the aircraft in.  The crew on the video were most likely trying to align the helo to go into the port hangar. You can see the separate rast equipment rails in the deck, especially as they cross the deck markings." 

"The aircraft is sitting on top of the rast for the portside hangar.  In all honesty, it really does look like it was an error on the part of the ground crew.  When the aircraft is on its side, the tail wheel is centered.  It also looks like the tail wheel (which is a lot farther forward than on a Blackhawk or some Seahawks) was dragged across the rast shuttle, possible causing the start of the tipping, making it easier for the wind to tip it." 

"At the very end of the video the rast equipment is in motion, moving aft, which might have made things worse by giving more places for the tail wheel to catch.  Looking closely, that stern line is under tension.  I think the ground crew was trying to get that helo in quick and dirty, rather than taking their time, and they screwed it up by the numbers." 

"As for the cable pulling the aircraft, it's simple: The Seahawk is a tail dragger, even with the different arrangement of the landing gear, and the rear wheel was moved forward to allow it to operate off of small decks.   (The Coast Guard's Jayhawk uses the same arrangement for the same reason.) On small ships there is no room to have an actual tractor like on the LHAs, LHDs, and carriers, so the helos are moved by man power or winch.   In heavy seas or wind the aircraft is a lot harder to move, and a lot more dangerous for people to be around."

"On the day in question, the helicopter, which is owned by the Helisureste company, and hired by the regional government, was carrying luggage (24kg), an A3 TV camera (5kg), four passengers, the pilot and crew (515kg), fuel (229kg), which, when added to the weight of the helicopter itself (1,449kg), pushes it above the legal maximum. The report explains that the problems started almost immediately after taking off."

Added info from Chris Hudson:

"I was just browsing your site and watched the "Stadium Mishap Part 1" and "Part 2" videos. I think that you will find that the aircraft is a Bell 206 Twin Ranger rather than a 205."

New Info 11/13/07, from Julio Laredo:

"Regarding the videos 'Stadium Mishap Parts I & II', involving a helicopter crash in Spain, just a quick note to say that's not really a stadium but a bullfight arena (plaza de toros). A trifle, you might say.  Not for a Spaniard...."

Info from Lance Jones:

"On both the helicopter crash at the stadium clips you can hear the turbines spool down just as it gets to the rim of the stadium. It is a twin ranger and it appears that they lost both turbines at the same time. The pilot did the correct thing bringing the boom around away from the stadium to keep it from hitting on the way down and cause the aircraft to crash nose first."

"If you listen closely you can tell that both turbines have flamed out and are free-wheeling. Same tone as when they shut then down after landing. My guess is a slug of water from the tank. Really have to be diligent with those drains on something that is held in the air by brute force."

Westland Lynx Aerobatic Test Flights  Watch as this British-designed helicopter performs some incredible barrel rolls and loops.